April 27, 2008
How sad that the late night comedians are really taking punches at the women at the compound...making fun of their clothing and hair styles. As if they can do anything about that...or even WANT to do anything about that. I also read that a large number of the teen girls were pregnant or already had babies. I suspect the DNA testing will help sort it all out. It is frustrating to hear the news reports describe the "experts" who are working with the children. I would really like ...

April 27, 2008
How sad that the late night comedians are really taking punches at the women at the compound...making fun of their clothing and hair styles. As if they can do anything about that...or even WANT to do anything about that. I also read that a large number of the teen girls were pregnant or already had babies. I suspect the DNA testing will help sort it all out. It is frustrating to hear the news reports describe the "experts" who are working with the children. I would really like to know what experience they have working with cult children. Maybe some of them do, but I doubt most of them have ever read anything on cults, much less helped a frightened child of a cult. And what on earth are those poor foster parents about to embark upon? Wish I could go down there and offer some help training them. Having cared for two foster daughters from a cult myself, I know what they are up against. Every one of them should be required to watch Join Us before taking the child into their home. The Mtn. Rock parents could offer a lot of help, too!

April 12, 2008
Aha! Just as I suspected!

People listening to the real, live cult members from the FLDS compound are shocked, and don’t know what to do with the information! Case in point, my sister called last night and said she couldn’t believe how those women talked in such a strange way. She even used the “b” word and said she thought they must be brainwashed!

Of course, one would think that my relatives would already be very savvy about cults and brainwashing, but no, they aren’t....

April 12, 2008
Aha! Just as I suspected!

People listening to the real, live cult members from the FLDS compound are shocked, and don’t know what to do with the information! Case in point, my sister called last night and said she couldn’t believe how those women talked in such a strange way. She even used the “b” word and said she thought they must be brainwashed!

Of course, one would think that my relatives would already be very savvy about cults and brainwashing, but no, they aren’t. Most of them want to totally ignore my time in a cult and pretend it didn’t even happen. I think it was the first time my sister really ever understood what happened to me and why I’m still fighting cults.

Chalk one up for the media…they may be forced to do it right this time because they are not talking about dead bodies, but real, live people who are classic examples of the effects of cult mind control.

March 26, 20008
Another cult anniversary – Heaven’s Gate made the news 11 years ago. Again, the media went nuts over it. I did some media “handling” myself and found them to be totally ignorant about cults. One tv reporter from New York, who wanted to “tell my story” as a sidebar to the Heaven’s Gate story, was so blatantly rabid for some juicy stuff that I told him to go to hell. That felt really good, and it still does today every time I see him on the evening news!

The media will never ...

March 26, 20008
Another cult anniversary – Heaven’s Gate made the news 11 years ago. Again, the media went nuts over it. I did some media “handling” myself and found them to be totally ignorant about cults. One tv reporter from New York, who wanted to “tell my story” as a sidebar to the Heaven’s Gate story, was so blatantly rabid for some juicy stuff that I told him to go to hell. That felt really good, and it still does today every time I see him on the evening news!

The media will never get it as long as there are dead cult members to sensationalize. The operative word here is “dead.” How easy it is to talk for the dead! The media describes the members’ funny clothing, rifles through the group’s writings, repeats anecdotes from people who “knew” the dead members, and generally creates the cult in their own image. And talking to an ex-member? “Well, get out of the way of my pre-conceived notions…I’ve got a story to make-up and write!”

I would like to see them handle a story where they talked to living, breathing, current cult members; they wouldn’t know where to start. The group’s loaded language would be a challenge to decode for one thing! It would also be very hard to depict cult members as anything but what they are….indoctrinated. The living, breathing members would be the best proof of brainwashing there is. It would be very unsettling for the average viewer of the evening news, that’s for sure!

But dead cult members? They are easy pickin’s. Media can paint them as crazy as they want, and alleviate any fears that the rest of us have about coming to such a pathetic end. We can view them as being solely to blame for their untimely death and pass the mashed potatoes while the reporters natter on.

February 28, 2008
Today is the 15-year anniversary of the raid on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco. I remember the time as one of confusion and fear for me as I was just beginning my own recovery from a cult. It made me angry to hear everyone talk about those “crazy” people and even angrier to hear how the situation was being handled by the “professionals” and the media.

Even then, only a short time on my own path to healing, I knew the situation was being handled poorly…no, VERY poor...

February 28, 2008
Today is the 15-year anniversary of the raid on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco. I remember the time as one of confusion and fear for me as I was just beginning my own recovery from a cult. It made me angry to hear everyone talk about those “crazy” people and even angrier to hear how the situation was being handled by the “professionals” and the media.

Even then, only a short time on my own path to healing, I knew the situation was being handled poorly…no, VERY poorly. The tear gas and the fire had yet to occur, that would be weeks later in April, but I had a foreboding sense that things were going to get out of hand.

On April 19, when the fire burned out of control at the compound, by total random happenstance, I was only a few hundred miles from there, and actually drove past Waco the next day. Because I was around people who knew nothing about my past in a cult, I had to pretend that it didn’t bother me, but back at the hotel I was sick to my stomach and went into bathroom to sob, hoping my son, who was nine at the time, didn’t hear me.

The next day we went to Dallas to visit my best friend who had moved away several years earlier. She knew about my involvement in the cult, but didn’t know how to relate to me. I was a pile of oatmeal. I mostly stayed in the bedroom and cried. I couldn’t eat the meals she prepared or properly socialize with her new husband and her kids. I was a mess, and I think it was the last straw for our friendship. We’ve barely spoken since.

I’m really sorry about that, but I did the best I could at the time. I’m sure she did, too. Chalk it up to another thing the cult took away from me. Compared to the Branch Davidians who died in the fire, I got off easy.

February 12, 2008
No one is ever prepared to find that note from a loved one.

“I know I’m following God’s will for my life, and you must respect that. Please don’t ever try to contact me. I am truly happy, and if you love me, you will be happy for me. I have sold my belongings and have given the money to the ministry so that we can together address the human needs that are ignored by those who should know better, namely you and the entire family. I have a new family now, and they truly car...

February 12, 2008
No one is ever prepared to find that note from a loved one.

“I know I’m following God’s will for my life, and you must respect that. Please don’t ever try to contact me. I am truly happy, and if you love me, you will be happy for me. I have sold my belongings and have given the money to the ministry so that we can together address the human needs that are ignored by those who should know better, namely you and the entire family. I have a new family now, and they truly care about me, and others.”

And then again, some aren’t lucky enough to even receive a letter.

The pain and anguish that comes from having a loved one snatched away by a cult is heart wrenching. Some have even said that it would have been easier to bury the loved one, because at least they could have some peace about it by accepting the fact that they were gone forever.

Cult members are often like the walking dead to family members. Loved ones might see them here or there, but be unable to reach out in conversation or be able to touch. Families of cult members have described it as living with a ghost.

My own mother described such frustrations when I was involved in a cult, and later her honest discussions about how much pain I put her through caused me heart-wrenching emotions as well. And how my cult involvement caused my husband and young son to suffer will always be one of the hardest things I will ever have to come to terms with in my entire life.

There are degrees of control that cults exercise over their cult members’ family affairs. As in my own case, some groups allow contact, as long as the contact does not impede the group’s goals.

Other groups forbid even phone conversations, and literally require the victim to move across the country, change their names, and destroy all reminders of their family such as photos and letters.

It is a devastating experience that most are not prepared to handle.

My dream is to create a cult prevention DVD for young people that is distributed to every high school junior in the nation. Know anyone who wants to sponsor it? Corporate sponsors would probably think it too “icky” and not want their names associated with it. Can’t say as I blame them, but when the CEO’s little darling gets recruited as a freshman in college and she sends a letter like the one above, it might be a different story. It’s a pity to have to wait for something like to happen first, though.

I just switched off the evening news. There was a story about a young man who disappeared three months ago and no one has any idea what happened to him. No one has heard from him and there is no evidence of foul play. A family member did mention that some of his personal things were gone.

The policeman who was interviewed for the report said that in the majority of these cases, the person returns unharmed.

Of course I have my theory, and would at least ask friends and family some questio...

I just switched off the evening news. There was a story about a young man who disappeared three months ago and no one has any idea what happened to him. No one has heard from him and there is no evidence of foul play. A family member did mention that some of his personal things were gone.

The policeman who was interviewed for the report said that in the majority of these cases, the person returns unharmed.

Of course I have my theory, and would at least ask friends and family some questions along these lines.

Had he been talking about any new people that he had just met?
Had he been talking about any new religious or political ideas?
What kind of books had he been reading recently?
What does he have bookmarked on his computer?
Has he been restless with his current life situation?
Had he sold or given away any of his belongings recently?
Had he changed his diet or personal routine?
Was he fasting or praying a lot?
Had he lost his sense of humor?
Had he mentioned not following through on plans for education or career choices?
Had he been using a new jargon?
Did he seem high at times, but no evidence of drug use was found?
Did he seem sad at times, but could not express what was troubling him?
Was he lonely?
Had a major disappointment recently occurred?
Did he seem detached, almost zombie-like at times.
Was he expressing fear of the future?
Was he being vague about where he had been or whom he had been with?
Was he getting defensive and irritable when pressed for details?


But then, they didn’t ask me, or anyone else who knows a darn thing about cults. And if this 24 year old comes back home after being in a cult, you can bet the policeman will be dead wrong. He will not return unharmed.

About Liz Shaw
At this time there are very few people in the world who have personally spoken with over 3,000 cult victims. Liz Shaw has done that and more. In her nine years as Cult Survivor Advocate and three years as COO at Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center, Liz fielded dozens of calls from around the globe on a weekly basis from cultists wanting to leave their groups, cult survivors desperate for help, and families of cult members trying to extract their loved ones from the clutches ...

About Liz Shaw
At this time there are very few people in the world who have personally spoken with over 3,000 cult victims. Liz Shaw has done that and more. In her nine years as Cult Survivor Advocate and three years as COO at Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center, Liz fielded dozens of calls from around the globe on a weekly basis from cultists wanting to leave their groups, cult survivors desperate for help, and families of cult members trying to extract their loved ones from the clutches of abusive groups.

During those conversations Liz listened to stories of atrocities, pleas for relief, and cries for justice, often helping callers to find immediate safety from the cult and to gather resources for their survival and recovery.

Liz was a key player in generating over four million dollars in funds that led to cult victims receiving psychological and medical treatment as well as emergency transportation, food, clothing, and housing in some extreme cases.

On more than one occasion she has opened her home to ex-cult members on the run from dangerous groups and in need of a place to stay for the night. Two abandoned teenagers with a price on their heads spent two years under her care.

“I don’t regret hiding people out, in fact my home was an actual stop on the Underground Railway before the Civil War. I am not in the mindset to do it anymore for a number of reasons, but I am glad my husband and son were willing to stand by me in those days. Maybe some of those folks who got a helping hand from our family will extend theirs to help someone else.”

Those who have benefited from Liz’s tireless advocacy have also been deeply touched by her own story of recovery from a cult.

Speaking from experience as a former cult member
Liz never meant to join a cult at age 32. In fact anyone who knew Liz would have described her as the last person on earth to become recruited into an abusive group. She was just too smart for such foolishness.

Born the middle of four daughters, Liz grew up in a well-respected family in beautiful Western North Carolina. She was entrusted with a five generation legacy of traditional Appalachian music and eventually made a very good living on the road performing on fiddle, banjo, dulcimer, guitar, and singing with her husband Lynn. Their big break came when they were signed on to produce a 12 part internationally distributed public television series about American folk music.

That’s also about the time Liz became very sick with an intractable disease, interstitial cystitis.

“It was horrific. The pain was relentless. I would perform before thousands, and then come off stage and go to the van and cry in agony. I was a very good performer; no one in the audience knew how bad I was suffering as I just kept smiling and singing.”

Doctors were mystified, diagnoses were wrong, and Liz became desperate for relief.

“To make a very long story short, I eventually sought medical treatment from someone who had been kicked out of a cult in college because he had acquired his own following. I knew nothing about cults, recruitment, brainwashing, etc. All I knew was that I suffered excruciating pain and would have burned peacock feathers by the light of the moon if it would have helped. In fact, maybe I did do that?”

In 11 months, Liz’s life was a shambles. The cult had exacted a very high price - her health had deteriorated, she was unable to perform, and her marriage was on the verge of dissolution. And she was also the victim of sexual abuse by the cult leader.

Fast Forward to Today
That was in 1989. Today Liz has become one of the world’s leading experts on the impact cults have on not only members, but the families and friends of members as well. She is a popular speaker at universities, churches, and schools and has appeared on international television, radio, and film, as well as written for websites and instructional materials.

An integral part of Join Us, Liz facilitated interviews with ex-members of Mountain Rock Church, appears in the film in her capacity as Cult Survivor Advocate at Wellspring, and recorded some of the soundtrack with Lynn.

Liz will be blogging and contributing articles on a regular basis about a variety of topics: her own story of healing, cult warning signs, getting a loved one out of a cult, recovery issues and more. She looks forward to sharing her intimate and informed knowledge of the cult phenomenon and welcomes your questions. Because of the number of questions Liz receives, she is not be able to answer them personally. Personal information about your situation that could lead to identifying you will be edited; however, editing mistakes can occur, so please keep in mind that this is a public forum when you post.

Questions for Liz?

Q:

I have just finished 75% of the [large group awareness training program] in Vancouver BC Canada and I don't feel right. I am afraid the length of time I( spent there has done some kind of damage that I can't put my finger on. I know that last night )2days since I was last there) I dreamed of being back in the seminar. I would be grateful if you knew of someone local I could speak with. Thank you

A:

Yikes! That must feel miserable....and scary. Above all, do NOT go back for the other 25%! I am not a doctor, but I would be willing to bet that you are probably feeling the effects of brain fatigue and stimulus overload that comes from these kinds of intense experiences. These "trainings" can cause temporary altered states of being similar to hypnosis and trances, and that should come as no surprise! The brain is an organ like the heart and lungs, and if you were overexerting yourself to the point of exhaustion no one would think it odd that your heart and lungs were in distress. The same is true about your brain. Have you tried taking a few days off to just "chill" and unwind? Can you go to the beach or take a hike or get a massage or do something that will undo the brain-strain this caused? Are you having anxiety attacks? That is also a common experience after going through these kinds of "trainings." If after a week or two, you still find yourself distressed, you might consult a mental health professional, but I would be very clear that you suspect the distress to be the result of particpation in a large group awareness training program, and if they pooh pooh the idea, go somewhere else. Also, if you find yourself in crises and begin to think about harming yourself or others, go immediately to the emergency room. I hope you start to feel better soon, and I am glad you caught on before you became too invovled. Most likely this is going to be a temporary and unplesant sensation that will subside with time. I hope to hear back from you with a good report! Liz Shaw

Q:

Hi Liz, you sent a team of 3 counselors to Grand Marais, MN in summer of '03 when my family of 11 got out of a cult.Thank you so very much for talking with me back then and sending three counselors to help us for a few days. I need to find counseling for all or some of my family as things are not going well. We were not able to go to Wellspring for the time it required but I believe it would have been the best for us as some are in denial. My kids were born and raised there (21 years) and knew of nothing else. So far my kids have done ok, but other kids from the group have turned to drugs, pregnant, alcohol etc. I feel we need to get help or I do so I can help them with their issues. We had learned from the Wellspring counselors that the wrong kind of counselor would do us more harm than good. Could you give me some guidelines on finding a counselor for my family? Do you have some advice you could share? Thank you for anything you could do.

A:

Hello, I'm glad to hear from you again, though sorry to learn you still struggle with your cult experience. You are not alone, and I hope knowing that is some sort of comfort...many, many people have been through this and you are not some sort of unusual case. Yes, some counselors do not understand the dynamics of cultic involvement/recovery at all, but some do, or are willing to learn. I would look at this as a business deal. If you were going to buy a new house, you would call in a home inspector, talk to someone about the realtor to see if he was on the up and up, shop around for houses in the same price range, and do lots of homework. Selecting a good counselor for cult recovery invovles this kind of attention to details. Ask the potential counselor if s/he knows anything about cults. Have they read any of THE books on the subject? Are they willing to consult with professional counselors who have written or lectured on the problem? If you don't find a willingness to get better educated on the subject if there is a lack of understanding, then move on to the next one. Don't waste your time or money or hope on them! It would be wonderful if you could get to Wellspring for treatment, but if that is not immediately feasible, do search out a counselor for yourself who will work with you on these terms. I also suggest you get the movie Join Us. Based on what I remember about your group, I think you will really relate to the Mtn. Rock members who are featured in the film. Just knowing you are not alone is very therapeutic in itself. Blessing to you and your family! Liz

Q:

Dear Liz, what an encouragement to read your blog! Not sure if you remember me, but I have been doing the program at Wellspring in 2002 and that stay there still has an impact on my life! Thank you for being part of that too! Greetings your way!

A:

Hi! Yes, of course I remember you! I am so glad to hear that your recovery is moving right along, and I'm not surprised. Your determination to understand the dynamics of thought reform and do the hard work necessary to move beyond their effects has paid off! I hope you get a chance to see Join Us; I'm sure you'll remember a lot of the staff and the beautful setting. All best, Liz

Q:

Liz, our family recently left a cult pentecostal group. I'm doing my best to help those still in and those who have been out...some for quite some time. I want to do more. Is it enough to just "be there" for someone else...as a person who understands what they've been through? I've included information about your center on my blog in case someone feels the need to go...but unfortuantely...most of us just go through it the best we can...one day at a time. I would like to devote my life to helping people in this situation...as you are doing. How can I get started? In what way can I be of the most help? I am going to purcahse the dvd...Join Us. Aside from the child abuse aspect of the Mountain Rock church...it might as well have been the group I was a part of. Thank you for all you do.

A:

I'm so glad your family recently left the cult! The operative word there is "recently" and I want to address that right away. Good for you for wanting to help others still in and those who are out, but I want you to take care of YOURSELF too! :-) You have been through something very painful, confusing, and exhausting, and I hope you will give yourself the time and attention you need to heal before getting too overwhelmed by this very great need of the others. I can tell that you have a generous heart, and the ex-members are fortunate to have you "just be there" for them. Yes, sometimes that is all you can do, and being someone who understands what they have been through is an enormous gift you bring to them...don't ever underestimate it. My advise to you is to set aside some part of your life that is totally cult free. Find something that feeds you...do you like music, gardening, walking? Do something that strengthens you (and don't take this wrong, but something that has little to do with religion so you aren't triggered into rehashing the cult stuff) and grow a little stronger every day. Nurture yourself, get enough rest, eat good food, and then when you set aside some time to help these folks you will be able to do it without it wearing you out. This is a long battle, you must pace yourself, and retreat now and then to fight another day. When you get the ebb and flow of your emotional and physical energy managed, then you will be a force to be reckoned with! Blessings to you for your sincere desire to help others who have felt the pain you yourself have experienced. Liz

Q:

We have a 32 year old daughter who has become involved with a metaphysical group (cult?). Since becoming involved she has recently divorced and immediately started alienating herself from her family. We don't know what to do. We're really scared. Can you help? N & L

A:

I'm so sorry to hear about this, and I know you are scared and have your hearts ripped into pieces over it. Are you still able to speak to her, or has she cut off all contact? The first thing NOT to do is use the "c" word...don't say to her that she is in a cult. The next thing to do is keep the communications open so that if she gets an "ahaaa" moment she will feel able to talk to you about it. People need to be able to save face, and if she thinks you are going to start with "I told you so..." she will never turn to you if she begins to question her invovlement in the group. Doing damage control at this point is a good idea...back off if you have had heated discussions over her actions/beliefs etc. Rebuild bridges if at all possible with non-confrontational communications. Will she still participate in any family acitivities such as birthdays, weddings, funerals, etc? If so, consider yourself fortunate. If you can get the "bleeding" stopped, the next thing to consider is an intervention, or exit counseling. This is not a decision to be taken lightly, however. Start researching the exit counselors you have heard about. (There are several mentioned in the movie Join Us.) You want a good "fit" with whomever you decide to work with. Does the person understand metaphysical groups? Does the person have a personality that your daughter might have liked before she got in the group? What kind of timeframe can the exit counselor work on? What are the costs? All of these things should be weighed out, and then you are just beginning the hard work that is necessary to pull off an intervention! The most important thing to do now is educate yourself, try to get some support from others who have been through this, research the feasibility of an intervention, and don't play into the hands of the group! Loosing your cool, and telling her she is brainwashed won't work...the group is probalby hoping you will do just that so they can say, "Yep, your folks just don't understand the important things we believe and do!" Don't give up, but don't give in to your fear! You have to outsmart them and handle this with finesse! Blessing to you, Liz Shaw

Q:

do you know of anything that is effective in reaching out to family/friends who are still in the cult we left? since i know how they think i just think its so hopeless. i consider it a miracle that i got out even though in my circumstance i didn't really have a choice.

A:

It is very hard to leave a cult with family and friends behind! And yes, you DO know how they think, and it might be hopeless to try and help them. However, you never know when you are planting a seed, or opening the crack of the door a little wider so that someone can follow you out. There are lots of things to consider...are there people left in the group that you had a real connection with and you might be able to reach at some point in time? Are there loved ones there that you miss so badly that you want to make some sort of effort? OR, would doing anything to try and reach out cost you dearly in emotional, physical, and even financial health? How long have you been out yourself, and what would trying to reach out cost YOU. You might think of it like this...when you are on the plane the flight attendant tells you to put the oxygen mask on first before you try to help someone else! If you are still getting your own footing after leaving a group, do NOT do anything to set yourself back in your own recovery! If you are ready to take the risk, then know that you will probably be verbally attacked, maligned by group leadership, and even sometimes harrassed if you make any attempts to liberate other members of the cult. If you are ready for that, then start with anyone whom you thought might be serioulsy questioning the group, and try to win their trust. Then presenting FACTUAL information about the group is the best way to proceed, and offering support if they decide to leave. Good luck, and take care of yourself FIRST however! Liz Shaw

Q:

It's a little hard to apply the things you say to look for when the control is coming from your friends and family! One of the authors makes the point that this kind of relationship can exist anywhere, between any individuals, and when REALITY TESTING interferes with what your family wants you to believe and who they want you to be, it's hard to "go back to your family" when their map doesn't match up with reality! and the "friends" that you've "made" according to this map (because up until now it's the only one you've been allowed to use) are the same way.

A:

Are you saying you were born into a thought reform system with your family and friends, and you are trying to separate yourself from their cultic reality? Can you help me better understand what you are saying? Liz Shaw

Q:

some of my friends and family members left a cult within the last year. is there anything a mother and father can do or i can do for children or friends that are still in it? obviosly we know how they think to a certain extent but anytime anyone leaves it gets much worse for those who are still there.

A:

I am glad that your friends and family members were able to leave the cult! Are you able to get accurate information from the recent "defectors" regarding what is currently going on inside the group? Updated information is very helpful in deciding what actions people on the outside should be taking. It is disturbing to know that those who stay in the group are treated much worse after people leave, but sadly, it is not surprising. Sometimes groups tighten the thumbscrews in order to intimidate the remaining members to stay. But I have seen that backfire on groups from time to time, and some remaining members "wake up" enough to feel the pain and leave. Also, sometimes when the situation inside starts to deteriorate, an intervention can be more successful because some members are waiting to find a way out. I highly recommend you watch Join Us, and perhaps consider an intervention as something to research. (Several exit counselors are interviewed in the film.) But above all, make sure that those who have recently left the cult are getting adequate support! It ain't easy for them, and they most likely need some help from time to time. Liz Shaw